[Dstar] D star rent costs
Michael Owen
michaelj.owen at bigpond.com
Tue Aug 5 08:46:39 CST 2008
Mark and Steve
May I assure you that at least some of us, who get the benefit of your great contribution do really understand the extent of the time and money you devote to amateur radio.
We may not express it very well, but I assure you that it is those who contribute so much inspire others to contribute also, and perhaps in different ways, in a world that gets more and more complex.
Thank you
Michael Owen VK3KI
Michael Owen
3 Gordon Road
Mount Waverley
Victoria 3149
Australia
Phone: +61 3 9802 6137
Cell: +61 419 320 822
E-mail: michaelj.owen at bigpond.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Reining
To: Dstar Digital Radio Mail List
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 9:06 AM
Subject: RE: [Dstar] D star rent costs
Hi Mark
I am in the same situation as you.
I work for JRD Communications and now also own Western Communications vic
And yes, nobody understands the efforts we go to and expenses that are involved.
I Run the VK3RHF System here in Melbourne.
10 mtr, 6 mtr ,70 cm and 23 cm bands all cross linked with numerous voting receivers as well
currently 5 sites involved with links to all involved with one of them a SOLAR site.
I pour tons of hours and dollars into it myself with little assistance like your self.
Try to explain the costs and efforts involved and it all goes to deaf ears.
A whole radio club pays for one repeater and think they are sponsoring the world.
It's a great thing that radio clubs do get involved in repeaters to see how much in involved.
Not as simple as getting a $10.00 s/hand FM828 and two antenna's with 50 feet of RG-58 is it..
The WIA costs for running all the repeaters they do is HUGE, and yet how many grizzle about
paying a small WIA membership fee.
Yes every time an antenna fails or Heliax cable run get chewed by cockatoos
an expensive rigger is required, as well as LDF 4-50 Heliax at the least and Ruggedised antenna.
No Commercial site can run these days without a $20 Million Dollar Liabillity Insurance either.
Well said Welcome to the real world of radio as it is in 2008.
At 08:36 PM 4/08/2008, you wrote:
Hi Will
Welcome to the real world of radio as it is in 2008. Financial pressures
regarding licencing of commercial frequencies which are way over anything
you are charged for amateur licencing per frequency and bandwidth put
enormous on costs to any decent repeater site let alone the govt/council
charges for rates, electricity and the myriad of other hidden charges. Most
ham radio clubs try to back onto these sites and in 90% of cases the
commercial site owners out of the goodness of their hearts and the desire to
see forward thinking and emerging new technologies prosper and also because
most ham clubs are full of keen people will really go and try to assist in
any way possible. There are of course other site owners who want every
single buck they can get because the radio industry is under huge pressure
from other comms technologies and long gone are the days when your radio
site made great profits. Most radio sites now just break even or slightly
better if it is run well.
Your job if you accept it is to find one of the site owners that is one of
the good guys and is appreciative of all of your efforts. But when you get
right down to it, it is the commercial operator who is subsidizing a lot of
the fixed costs. Long gone are the heydays of radio when it was all easy to
get things done and sites for free. Having to have riggers on the site now
because of OH and S issues and the chance of being sued is a big issue.
VK3KRD's response is spot on about the whys and wherefores of the matter of
forward thinking and generous commercial radio companies.
I am a commercial radio company and also a ham radio dealer so I have a foot
in both camps and if anyone tells you that you make lots of dollars out of
selling ham radio they are not telling you the real story. Yes we do make ok
money out of the commercial radios mostly but that's getting harder and
harder now as well. I am putting up a Dstar repeater up at a site I use at
the Sunshine coast and all of the costs are born by yours truly and as you
now know how much it all is to do it at a commercial site with all the
correct filtering used so you don't get killed by all the other commercial
services it starts to run out at a lot of bucks. I am extremely lucky that
the owner of the site I use is a good guy and doesn't charge me much as well
as I do things for him at the same time on his site which saves him bucks as
well. There are a few people up this neck of the woods who have made some
pretty crappy comments about "commercial operators" putting up and taking
over Dstar to sell all the Dstar radios to make all this money and they are
going to make a fortune. Well I can tell you that the costs to buy all the
gear....no its not donated or funded by poker machine grants... its all paid
for by yours truly in one way or another it would take the sale of about 500
plus dstar radios to even come anywhere close just to break even with the
equipment cost spend but now we get the running costs on a per year basis
like the ADSL connection, electricity, license fees, maintenance, lightning
strikes, insurance etc and any other incidentals on a yearly basis it
becomes a pretty big task. Does it sound like a prosperous business case to
you?
All I can offer you Will is that as a club you have many guys at your
disposal who are keen and you may need to look at some sort of fund raising
on a semi permanent basis also you need to find a sympathetic site owner, I
am not sure of the situation over there...maybe someone who owns a house up
at Kalamunda up on the range there..well I think that's how you spell it but
that would be a great site anywhere up there for Perth. Long gone are the
days of 2 antennas when sharing sites because of the radio saturation and
things like trunking and multiax you need a radio repeater no matter what
mode it is in with proper hi-spec duplexers and isolator and good feed lines
and proper antennas that don't become harmonic generators. That's the price
of playing radio now.
By the way I am hoping VK4RDS will be on air in about 4 weeks all things
going well
Just my 2 cents worth
Regards
Mark Kyle
Kyle Communications Pty Ltd
-----Original Message-----
From: dstar-bounces at lists.wia.org.au [mailto:dstar-bounces at lists.wia.org.au]
On Behalf Of Will
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 9:44 AM
To: dstar at lists.wia.org.au
Subject: [Dstar] D star rent costs
Hello all,
In VK6 we are working on the D-star repeater site
and costs are of prime concern for our local
repeater club (WARG) who have taken on the
project and many of the costs involved.
Rent for the good site that has been found
for the D-star repeater, along with an analogue
repeater, is of concern.
What has happened in the rest of Australia in
terms of rent costs...?
Any info would be appreciated as we need to
know where our club sits in terms of costs.
D-star is an added cost that is above the
normal running costs of the club which has
budgeted for decades based on analogue
repeaters etc.
Will
VK6UU
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Steve Reining VK3JSR
VK3RHF System Owner Operator
29.640/29.540
53.625/52.625
438.750/433.750 enc 88.5Hz
1273.400/1293.400
4 Way Repeater System
http://www.vk3rhf.net [VK3RHF WEB PAGE]
PO Box 1025
Huntingdale, Victoria
Australia 3166
Work Ph 03 9543 3811
Mobile 0428 538858
steve at jrd.com.au
www.jrd.com.au [Work Web Page]
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